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Posted by Weed (94.168.82.198) on 15:58:02 07/November/10
In Reply to: Re: fake flyers - you all need to read! posted by THERAVECAVE
apologies that some of the stuff below repeats what's already been said -
it was written before i read all the other replies,
and i haven't got the energy to re-read it, let alone re-edit it :)
thanks for an interesting post Jon, and your basic point is taken...
after all, flyers are just bits of coloured paper... lol
however...
: ...but more importantly was prepared to make significant investments
: in buying up flyers as a potential future investment
i think most people collect for very different reasons
(my own collection will probably be donated to a museum at some point -
many years ago one of them expressed an interest in acquiring it)
: ...you ll discover your flyers are not worth anymore than the paper they are printed on
: as they all infringe image/ artistic copyright law
isn't the opposite more likely?
if the original artist legally enforced copyright
the notoriety would more likely increase the value of a flyer
(tho of course it couldn't be sold quite as openly)
: ...so I m afraid you re just mugging yourselves off,
: if you think they are worth loads or a future investment
i don't know anyone who collects flyers as an investment --
it seems a strange thing to do...
there again i had a friend who made a living buying and selling postage stamps lol
: I ve compiled a quick list below
many thanks for that -- much appreciated!
some of those are new to me, and will be helpful,
cos i include names of original artists in the description field of my flyers database
(i'm probably better on Renaissance & classical than C20th)
: ...I estimate around 50-60% of flyers infringe copyright law
: and therefore will never be of any monetary value
surely it doesn't work like that --
flyer collecting is almost certainly following the same course as with other collectables -
eg vinyl rock 'n' roll records in the 70s & 80s,
& silver age Marvel comics in the 80s and 90s
(nb there were similar problems with counterfeit records in the 90s -
eg with the Bowie 'drag cover' -- but even so they were by no means worthless)
: most flyers are worth no more than a quid each
: the cost to print a piece of paper - imho
a quick glance on eBay shows that this just isn't so --
there's a law of supply and demand,
and things are worth whatever people are willing to pay for them
otherwise collectors wouldn't pay large sums for Victorian postcards,
or spend thousands of pounds on a single postage stamp
(which is easier to fake, and uses far less paper lol)
: if they ve got a copyright infringement image on them [in whatever guise]
: they are worthless and in the eyes of the law all fakes.
well plainly they're not all worthless, cos some of them are being bought for lots of money --
and as i said, if the law considers them to be illegal, this may add to their value :)
: The only worth they have is sentimental and not monetary.
i have to disagree here --
flyers are important to historians and sociologists,
and are significant to artists and designers
(an indication of this is the number of academic theses on them,
and the many exhibitions of flyer art that have been held all over the world)
they document and are part of what was an explosion of creativity --
technologically it was the start of the electronic age
(lasers, photocopiers, computers, digital synthesisers);
culturally there was a fusion of a new style of dance music, new graphics (especially fractals), and new drugs
(well 'new drugs' in the sense of newly popular);
and they were also a medium for communicating ideas and new ways of seeing things
you mention Dali, and all those wonderful Gallery flyers come to mind
(using an image of his surreal sculpture "Bust of a Retrospective Woman")
or how about an even more blatant rip off of copyright images, the Sterns flyers?
it's how the images are used which makes them so enjoyable --
and the origins of the images are part of what makes the flyers so delightful
to say "The only worth they have is sentimental..." is a bit demeaning
i think there's much more to it than just nostalgic sentiment
flyers are a direct way of relating back to a time
that for many was deeply meaningful
and flyers can validate those experiences in a very immediate way
flyers were a part of the experience and have survived along with the music
> I ve never seen it mentioned on here before and it s worth remembering
yes, there's some sense in what you're saying
and perhaps it's a timely reminder of the need to keep a sense of proportion
tho as for monetary value... i expect expensive flyers will keep their value for a few years,
whereas the value of less collectable flyers will probably drop
but prices go up and down...
perhaps in 2030 they will have little or no value --
and maybe by 2130 they will be worth huge amounts lol
after Bach's death his unpublished compositions were scattered far and wide --
it was 100 years later that people started to take an especial interest in them --
by then, many of them were lost for ever --
it's said that some of his original hand-written manuscripts were rescued from a cheese shop
(where they were being used to wrap the customers' cheeses)
i've been told that the golden rule of collecting is to collect what you enjoy :)